Interview with Makoto Koizumi | Tonton Rocking Chair

ーー What was your impression when you heard about a rocking chair from Steve for the first time?

The image that came to my mind was a grandma sleeping on a rocking chair while knitting. A swinging chair to make us sleepy. Is that necessary for us? That was honestly my first impression. Actually, it was a bit hard for me to picture, but once Steve told me that it’s a chair to put the baby to sleep, I was like, “Ah, that totally makes sense!” I felt that I’d like to make the chair.

ーー Actually, I’ve misunderstood that it’s a small rocking chair for kids…

Hahaha, seriously? No, no, it’s not. It’s a chair that a parent holding a baby sits on. It’s difficult for us to imagine a chair to put a baby to sleep, isn’t it? Once I realized that it’s furniture for a purpose, I felt that there’s meaning I should design.

ーー What?! Instead of making adjustments on drawings, you start with creating a prototype?

Right. We start with creating a prototype in actual size, then Miyazaki-san, the staff at Miyazaki Chair Factory, and I discuss the details in front of the prototype, like “we should adjust here, or there”. Especially when it comes to chairs, there are many unclear parts you don’t know about until you sit on them or you produce them. That’s why I don’t draw detailed drawings and we create a prototype at the beginning based on my rough sketch. We repeat trial production over and over again, discussing things like, “how about lowering the height of the seat?” or “let’s increase the curve.”

ーー Wait, do other designers follow the same process as you to make chairs?

In general, no. First the designer makes an accurate drawing, then the maker manufactures it according to the drawing. Our method of manufacturing, which we call a workshop, is very unusual. You know, it has been over 20 years since I started work with Miyazaki Chair Factory. I have been regularly visiting their factory every two months since then. When I visit their factory, I sit on the prototype to make sure. It took around two years to complete the tonton, so we created almost 10 prototypes.

ーー Oh, I remembered that I read an article written by a staff member at Miyazaki Chair Factory online. “The product designed by Koizumi-san is very simple, but at the same time, they have very unique characteristics… Also difficult tasks are always planted by him.” It sounded like they were forced to do difficult tasks by you. I laughed.

Hahaha! No, no, I’ve never forced them! Since I understand almost every technique and machine in their factory, I discern what they can’t and also what they possibly can do. For example, to produce a rocking chair this time, I suggested, “Let’s try bending it!” We never tried large bending before. Trying something one step at a time makes both Miyazaki Chair Factory and me grow.

ーー What is “large bending”?

It means bentwood. The wood is steamed first, then placed in a mold (metal or wooden) and pressed with strong force to bend. At Miyazaki Chair Factory, we’ve done bentwood for the backrest of the chair before, but we never did it for large and long parts such as the backrest or foot of the rocking chair. Miyazaki-san jokingly told me, “It was super hard!” (laughs)

ーー By the way, when you design products, are you conscious of Japanese-ness?

I’m not. Products designed by Japanese designers and manufactured by Japanese factories would create something Japanese-ness, maybe?

ーー What?! Not minus but addition?!

Let’s take Udon noodles as an example. When we hear of “minimal Udon”, we must imagine Su-Udon (just Udon noodles in the dashi soup without any toppings), don’t we? Some people say that while there are many types of Udon, like Tempura Udon (tempura topped) and Nabeyaki Udon (Udon stew topped with shrimp and vegetable), Su-udon is a type of Udon where all toppings get eliminated. I disagree with that. By choosing bonito flakes carefully, making dashi broth, and kneading buckwheat by hand, the process of making Su-Udon relies on addition. Su-Udon is a final product of adding until a maker thinks that’s enough.

ーー Wow! That makes sense.

Japanese design may look simple, but it’s the result of the addition of skills and training to achieve the form. It’s the same as Japanese architecture. We choose carefully what is truly necessary, from essential materials to fundamental construction methods. We add those things then quit at the point where we think that’s good enough. I think such results can be said are Japanese style.

ーー What a mind-blowing perspective. The Japanese don’t aim to make something simple or minimal. It’s just the result of addition? Do you think there is any “-ism” in your design or production?

I would say that sustaining a long relationship with the manufacturer and keeping production sustainable are my style. I often address that there are three different types of design in the world.

ーー Some designers collaborated with ceramic makers to create eccentric products. That’s exactly it, right?

That’s right. Murata Seisaku-kun (the robots created by Murata Manufacturing Co., Ltd.) is also the same. On the other hand, there is enduring design such as the one Sori Yanagi created. Judging which is better or worse is meaningless. The only important thing is that both designer and manufacturer share the same purpose.

ーー Well, is there anything Koizumi-san is willing to achieve beyond production?

You know what? I really want my products to become antiques.

ーー Antiques?!

Antiques are really impressive. When I thought about why I’m so obsessed with antiques, I came to a conclusion. One of the reasons is that they are tough. I don’t mean toughness or strength. It means the sustainability of materials. For example, there is warmth in old wood and there is fragility in old paper. Another reason is sufficient performance. It’s difficult to use it if it’s insufficient, and it’s easy to get bored if it’s over-sufficient. The other reason is emotional. It can be said “Emoi” in teen slang (laughs). It is feeling a sense of the “beautiful” or “adorable” in stuff. Actually, I’ve designed products based on such a philosophy, so I hope my products will become antiques eventually.